I wanne debate about the current modpack regarding realism and fun.

[SSgt (Ret) Braathen]

I just wanne debate about pushing for more realism into our current setup.

 

With the new medical where limb damage is there i kinda feel we are pushing for more realism and sacrificing fun for it,
I understand some people want more realism but i feel we are pushing to much for it.

 

I just wanne have a discussion about it  

 

 

 

KEEP IT CIVIL!!!!

Edited March 5, 2018 by Sgt Braathen

[Maj (Ret) Ray]

I don't want to poison the well by commenting out of the gate. But this thread will be watched like a hawk. Everyone's opinion matters.

[MAJ Carrera]

We could counter act the limb damage issue by introducing a medical vehicle into our ops as a mobile hospital of sorts and have it so wounded have to be transported to the vehicle so they can get stitched up or PAKed.

[Capt (Ret) Tullo]

As stated last night by Maj Ray there has been some inquires into introducing some more advance medical procedures to counteract the broke limb concerns.

[Maj (Ret) Ray]

5 minutes ago, HM1 Tullo said:

As stated last night by Maj Ray there has been some inquires into introducing some more advance medical procedures to counteract the broke limb concerns.

We can either introduce splints to allow SARCs to heal broken limbs, or enable bandages to heal broken limbs. It's up to medical section, as Battalion medical controls the medical settings in ACE.

[SSgt (Ret) Braathen]

12 minutes ago, CW4 Carrera said:

We could counter act the limb damage issue by introducing a medical vehicle into our ops as a mobile hospital of sorts and have it so wounded have to be transported to the vehicle so they can get stitched up or PAKed.

that can be done but that will also mean that we need to dedicate someone to drive it and follow the MSOT

5 minutes ago, HM1 Tullo said:

As stated last night by Maj Ray there has been some inquires into introducing some more advance medical procedures to counteract the broke limb concerns.

Yes but that is not the point, the point is how far are we going to push for realism and sacrefice fun for it. because even adding ADV ACE Splint, it will add more stuff todo for the sarcs's (which is a good thing if they want it) and will it be a 1 time use item so you need alot of em, also i dont think its fun that you are limping and you need a sarc to fix it and he/she might be far away from you, and that will most likly render you useless until you get you limb fixed

[SSgt (Ret) Braathen]

what i hope regarding the Ace ADV spint is that you can use it like the tourniquet and apply it when you limbs are damage and that that you need a sarc to fix you by either stiching you or paking you. after you been fixed by the sarc you can the remove the spint and use it again if you get any limb damage

 

basicly like this: LImb dmg - apply Splint - Find sarc to fix you- remove splint. (and it just keeps going around is circle)

Edited March 5, 2018 by Sgt Braathen

[Sgt (Ret) DelPercio]

The biggest thing we could try and introduce is medevacs, some of the injuries we sustain in the field would not be treatable in the field. While this would make for a massive logistical undertaking, I think it would be interesting to employ medevacs and maybe even sarcs or other personnel that could fill in and act as medical crew onboard. Two ways we could utilize it is have a medical helicopter fly in and stay until wounded are treated, which is dangerous, but faster. Or like a traditional medevac and take the wounded back to base. I think this would be interesting and include some more realism but also maybe making people think about how they operate. 

 

EDIT: these medevac teams could also act as CSAR for downed aircraft 

It would be pretty badass to act as CSAR/PJ

 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Cpl DelPercio

[SSgt (Ret) Derr]

1 minute ago, Sgt Braathen said:

what i hope regarding the Ace ADV spint is that you can use it like the tourniquet and apply it when you limbs are damage and that that you need a sarc to fix you by either stiching you or paking you. after you been fixed by the sarc you can the remove the spint and use it again if you get any limb damage

That’s not how splints work bro. Yes if you wish to make one out of some tourniquets and twigs you could probably reuse one.  the splints we use are mailable and you fit it to fit the specific wound. I’m not a medic and it’s been a minute since I prepped one so I could totally be wrong. Just have the SARCs carry multiple splints, they should be pretty light.

[SSgt (Ret) Derr]

4 minutes ago, Cpl DelPercio said:

The biggest thing we could try and introduce is medevacs, some of the injuries we sustain in the field would not be treatable in the field. While this would make for a massive logistical undertaking, I think it would be interesting to employ medevacs and maybe even sarcs or other personnel that could fill in and act as medical crew onboard. Two ways we could utilize it is have a medical helicopter fly in and stay until wounded are treated, which is dangerous, but faster. Or like a traditional medevac and take the wounded back to base. I think this would be interesting and include some more realism but also maybe making people think about how they operate. 

This is awesome

Edited March 5, 2018 by WOC Derr

[SSgt (Ret) Braathen]

1 minute ago, WOC Derr said:

That’s not how splints work bro. Yes if you wish to make one out of some tourniquets and twigs you could probably reuse one.  the splints we use are mailable and you fit it to fit the specific wound. I’m not a medic and it’s been a minute since I prepped one so I could totally be wrong. Just have the SARCs carry multiple splints, they should be pretty light.

thats the problem what if they run out of splint and there is problems for the to get new ones from base, i dont wanne limp around in a ftx/OP/training just because the sarc ran out of splints

[MAJ Carrera]

9 minutes ago, Cpl DelPercio said:

The biggest thing we could try and introduce is medevacs, some of the injuries we sustain in the field would not be treatable in the field. While this would make for a massive logistical undertaking, I think it would be interesting to employ medevacs and maybe even sarcs or other personnel that could fill in and act as medical crew onboard. Two ways we could utilize it is have a medical helicopter fly in and stay until wounded are treated, which is dangerous, but faster. Or like a traditional medevac and take the wounded back to base. I think this would be interesting and include some more realism but also maybe making people think about how they operate. 

Literary typing this as you posted... pilot slots are already medics via ACE so we could incorporate crew chief slots which is already being talked about and they can act somthing like a PJ.

 

6 minutes ago, WOC Derr said:

That’s not how splints work bro. Yes if you wish to make one out of some tourniquets and twigs you could probably reuse one.  the splints we use are mailable and you fit it to fit the specific wound. I’m not a medic and it’s been a minute since I prepped one so I could totally be wrong. Just have the SARCs carry multiple splints, they should be pretty light.

 

yes they are light they are a pliable metal sheet with foam glued to the sides probably about 3-4 ounces each dont think you would be able to use it as a  tourniquet.

Edited March 5, 2018 by CW4 Carrera

[K. Cooper]

I honestly believe that limping around for an entire FTX because the SARCs forgot a PAK, sacrifices large amounts of fun for a small portion of realism.

I believe that it’d be in our best interest to be reasonable and approach this ‘Realism Unit’ realistically from another angle, rather than introduce an annoying mechanic; that in turn can be vastly detremental. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Sgt Cooper

[SSgt (Ret) Derr]

1 minute ago, Sgt Braathen said:

thats the problem what if they run out of splint and there is problems for the to get new ones from base, i dont wanne limp around in a ftx/OP/training just because the sarc ran out of splints

Resupply... We haven't had many issues with conducting them before. I would encourage people to engage in some outside the box thinking. If we have an issue where we are having a lot of broken extremities then SARC HQ should probably adjust accordingly.  

[SSgt (Ret) Derr]

3 minutes ago, CW4 Carrera said:

Literary typing this as you posted... pilot slots are already medics via ACE so we could incorporate crew chief slots which is already being talked about and they can act somthing like a PJ.

 

 

yes they are light they are a pliable metal sheet with foam glued to the sides probably about 3-4 ounces each dont think you would be able to use it as a  tourniquet.

With regards to my tourniquet comment I was alluding to improvising a split with a tq and firm support structures (i.e. wood, sticks)

[MAJ Carrera]

6 minutes ago, WOC Derr said:

With regards to my tourniquet comment I was alluding to improvising a split with a tq and firm support structures (i.e. wood, sticks)

I was referring to the S-4 proposed mod it uses this type of splint as seen in the screenshot:

[SSgt (Ret) Braathen]

Some splints are reusable

Edited March 5, 2018 by Sgt Braathen

[Specter]

44 minutes ago, WOC Derr said:

This is awesome

*brushes dust off of medevac call-in sheet*

[Capt (Ret) Hito]

I think needs to be a balance, in all sides, from people overly expose in some situations acting as Superman running in the open and not doing tactically, having the rear guard open and an enemy approaching from behind and hitting everybody, I like realism and a playable game, but not extreme realism and surrealism.  Tactics and common sense should be used first to avoid getting injured in the first place, we supposed to be SOF don't we?

 

I have seen Medical teams running out of supplies due to massive casualties scenarios but also if this happens you can call calvary and send a resupply at least I think you can send an automated resupply using Zeus reinforcement module so Aviation will not be redirected to do the task.

 

So leave like it is now, implements the new mod and adjusts the SOP to incorporate the splint and if you need more call for a resupply.

Edited March 5, 2018 by GySgt Hito

[MSgt Falconer]

Having been on the reciveing end of the new feature, whitout being told it was an implemented feature. I can say that it add nothing to the fun aspect of the game. It is 100% annoying and frustrating and should be binned yesterday.

Edited March 5, 2018 by 1stLt Falconer

[GySgt Cole]

I have a unique perspective where until a week or two ago I have pretty much Zeused every mission but my own since September. I've also been a CSO, Element Leader, Team Chief and now Team Leader.

As S-2 OIC:
I see people doing stupid shit all the time. Bad tactics, bad coverage, real simple stuff. Biggest advice: slow down. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. 
When I see stupid things, I sort of see the reason why having things like more realistic damage and more punishing medical systems is good. If you don't have a punishment for doing stupid shit, what's stopping you? If Zeuses were out to punish and truly win, we'd be able to absolutely fuck up a lot of task forces.

 

As Team Leader (and compiling my experience on every level of ground):
It's very easy for me, Company and so on to watch from the back of the formation (or even better, Zeus) and say "C'mon guys, lock this shit up and don't get shot", when obviously the truth is much more grey than that. Harsh stamina and medical systems I found to be more aggravating than encouraging. I've said before in similar threads that I'm here for realism in tactics and procedures, not for realism in gameplay consequences. This is still true, but I do see the need for those gameplay consequences on a fundamental level.

Combining my thoughts from above with this, I think instead of pursuing this level of technical punishment, we should be pushing ourselves at every level of leadership to be better at tactics and procedures, which is what we're all actually here for. If Battalion, Company, Team HQs and Element Leaders can't slow down and iron out the basics to the intermediate, we have bigger problems than harsher consequences can fix. Carrot before the stick in this case.

 

 

 

On CASEVACs
Really cool for JTACs, pilots, flight medics. Really sucks if you're a CSO who flashed themselves and took a rifle round because a door was open on your screen but wasn't actually in game logic. Very few people on ground want to be told "oh yeah you're technically good but we're flying you back to base for immersion". Frankly we take too many casualties and our air-ground interaction is not at the point where this can be evenhandedly implemented.

[Capt (Ret) Jones]

It's quite unfortunate that I can nail a dude with multiple shots, have him turn, look at me, and unload which results in my being broken until I can get the proper assistance. Arma suffers from being Arma -- and I find it unfair to be subject to a limp or perma-sway because the target that would realistically be dead is not.

 

Obviously this is a single instance and doesn't account for poor individual performance, but there needs to be an appropriate solution for people.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Sgt Jones

[MSgt Street]

I think that in a perfect world in a perfect game the limping would be a nice addition, however arma is not a perfect game. I think that having the limitation of speed imposed on you is hard and at many times infuriating, especially when its out of your control and your on a tight time table and don't have time to stop and get a medic and hold still for 30 seconds, I would be in favor of bringing back bandages can heal limbs. I however wasn't in favor of advanced medical as I am a simple man and didn't much care to learn it, so take that as you will. 

[SSgt (Ret) Braathen]

59 minutes ago, Sgt Jones said:

It's quite unfortunate that I can nail a dude with multiple shots, have him turn, look at me, and unload which results in my being broken until I can get the proper assistance. Arma suffers from being Arma -- and I find it unfair to be subject to a limp or perma-sway because the target that would realistically be dead is not.

 

Obviously this is a single instance and doesn't account for poor individual performance, but there needs to be an appropriate solution for people.

 

36 minutes ago, SSgt Street said:

I think that in a perfect world in a perfect game the limping would be a nice addition, however arma is not a perfect game. I think that having the limitation of speed imposed on you is hard and at many times infuriating, especially when its out of your control and your on a tight time table and don't have time to stop and get a medic and hold still for 30 seconds, I would be in favor of bringing back bandages can heal limbs. I however wasn't in favor of advanced medical as I am a simple man and didn't much care to learn it, so take that as you will. 

I agree with Sgt Jones and SSgt Street here. Arma isnt a perfect game, there is several occasions were you shot an AI several times and he doesnt die and he turns towards you and just completly destroy you, and then you being punished with perma sway, and forced limping, and its not your fault of this cus if this was a realistic game he would have been dead before he could turn.

and also we need to think about people who has HIGH ping and the actions they are doing has a slight delay sent to the sever and i think this will punish them the most, even if they are in solid cover which they should be.

[GySgt Van Dyke]

While I love the idea of more realism, and medevacs are really cool, as someone who has been hit in the first 10 min of a mission before, getting knocked out of being effective that early on is infuriating, especially when you then get to sit at base for two hours because air is busy and or there's AA threats. I have to go with bringing back the bandages, just for playability. I'm here to have fun in an immersive environment, not to get punished every mission when an AI shoots me through a tree.